Hi Ari, Happy New Year. I listened to the full Maverick interview with Russ. And then some of his songs. Losing Control definitely a love song. The music industry you describe seems similar to the movie industry. In earlier years they owned their contract players and could make or break a career. Much has changed but control of marketing, releases, distribution is still not in the hands of any artist. There are entertainment lawyers- do they not represent the music industry performers? Would a consortium of music artists banding together ( like a union, thinking of theater performers) have power to negotiate with record labels. Going it alone is not for everyone, but it’s useful to be a thorn in the side of the establishment. So “ well played” by Russ. Well played by you for bringing this to our attention.
Yes, and it's striking to see areas where the 'old' systems persist... I also think this impacts fans and the wider culture, because if artists are marginalized enough, they may (logically) choose to do other things with their time and we may be the poorer for it
Van Gogh died a pauper because no one bought his paintings, but he didn’t stop painting. True artists never give up even when the systems work against them. Even if no one listens, wouldn’t they still sing? Would you ever stop writing?
When Russ found his success, it was already 2015-16. That was 6 years ago. Now it is much more difficult to follow Russ's Case Study. Case in point? Our music label (the Kiboomers.com). We started with streaming in 2010 through The Orchard (a distributor) - with nada as our yearly income (maybe $10K with about 300 songs!). We only started seeing success through streaming in 2016. About the time Russ saw his success. Now we are booming. We had the same thoughts as Russ (delusional) but we also had over 1,000 songs by 2016! And we are a children's company - niche - not main stream.
The major record labels starting embracing (sort of) streaming starting around 2014-5. Now it is virtually impossible for new acts to break into the market as independents. They have to sign a sub label or work with marketing companies to get onto the playlists, as everything is based on algorithms etc. The majors OWN the playlist placements. It is virtually impossible to get onto a New Music Friday (talking Spotify). Like literally IMPOSSIBLE in the US unless you are signed to a major label (or sub label). You have to still do all the grunt work that Russ did - but it costs money!
So it is easy to preach to newbies how "WE" did it - but. getting those algorithms and "halo" effects of owning thousands of songs in your library, and a "newbie" just starting out with 1-2 songs - is very, very different. Marketing gurus are only guru's once they have slugged along for 10 years.....and then following their recipe of success doesn't ofter work. Otherwise everyone would be successful.....
It's a great message to just KEEP TRYING - NEVER GIVE UP - but that is rather simplistic. One has to eat........
Really interesting points here, including about timing (something he referred to as well) - thank you for sharing your experience and the nuanced, realistic view!
Ari, thanks for another excellent article in a subject that I am not as knowledgeable as you are – the music industry. I just love to listen to music and attend music concerts. I remember very well when Prince called himself, “the artist formerly known as Prince” and had “slave” written on the side of his face. I did not quite understand why he did that. As I learn a little bit from listening to various music artists during their interview or from a documentary on their career success, they talk about their record label experiences. Most music artists start with signing and working with a record label. As the music artist become successful and learn more about the music business, they branch out and create their own record label.
I watched your interview with the rapper Russ. It looks like Russ is an “outlier” as he persisted through the ups and downs of his music career journey…he had his eyes on the prize and it paid off for him.
What do you think of how the music industry is set up? I am not sure if I like how the music industry is set up. It is too complicated and at the end, the music artist gets little to nothing from his/her work when signed with a record label because everyone in the process gets paid first. This might be one of the reasons the music artist does not feel valued, or their work is not valued.
As a music lover (consumer), I embraced the inventions of Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal because these online music streaming platforms allowed me to either buy the album of a music artist or only buy the tracks that I liked. For a music artist’s standpoint, they may or rather already have an opinion about these platforms and how they benefit from them…anyone remember Napster?
Does it remind you of other industries in this country? Yes, this reminds me of the movie industry and the sports industry.
Before you assume the suits in the office are taking all the gravy - an A&R guy who signs the act gets points on the act's sales so long as the A&R guy is working at the label. You're not signing new acts that are selling, the label lets you go.
I stopped buying music after the DRM mafia took over the music industry. If I like your music, I am willing to pay for it, but you can't force me to pay to listen to the the same 100 songs over and over again. I don't turn the radio on because I can't stand advertising. My last, great, music experience was seeing AC/DC live in 2009. RIP music industry.
This aspect of the music industry sounds predatory and the exploits artists. It reminds me of healthcare industry in 2021. Businesses now own the services provided. I am surprised more artists don’t consider forming a cooperative where they own their creation but share legal and production costs. It’s too bad that this current paradigm could discourage new talent. We need change!
In fairness, there's a new paradigm where artists record on their own dime and then find an indie that will put it out, then go out on the road which is where they make most of their money, such as it is, getting concert fees, selling product and merch and hyping whatever sales of cd's and downloads as they can muster, receiving a higher percentage than they would from a major. The record can also generate licensing fees for soundtracks which is a good source of income.
Hi Ari, the music business is way out of my league, so I appreciate Wendy W’s enlightening comments. However, I was friends to a couple of hit recording artists of the1950s and 60s-one, even into the 2000s. They would only whisper about the music business. Little Richard openly discussed being paid $50 for his first hit, “Tutti Fruity,” with a contract for a HALF-CENT for each record sold. Imagine that! I think the companies akin to them today are Amazon and Facebook-using techniques to squeeze workers and the competition. The Winklevoss twins are still owed money for their stolen concept. As for the music business, artists like Jay-Z, Master P, Eminem, and 50 Cents and others, did well selling CDs from the trunk of their cars, and now Jay-Z with Tidal seems to be doing okay. Ray Charles sought and got ownership of his masters. Still, most artists just play the game and work within the system for viability.
The music business is not unique or unusual as it is like every other business in America. It exploits its workers and their intellectual property. Unless you are independent (analogous to an entrepreneur), you work for the “man.” What is sad in the music industry is when these young rappers who think they have made it out of the trap (LiL Baby) only to find themselves ensnared in another trap. One that uses them until they are all used up and having nothing to show for it (not even the bling around their necks or the gold in their grills).
I don’t think we can place all the blame on the music industry for their business practices. It takes a lot of money to promote, groom, and develop these artist’s talents. Yes, some people will sell their souls for that spotlight even if it means they will be beholden to these companies and then some will not. I believe you can make it outside “the system,” but are you really independent? Unless you are independently wealthy someone had to invest in you monetarily which means you owe them, so you are not free of the strings attached.
This country was built on capitalism, which means everyone has a shot at their dreams (at a cost) whether you work for the “man” or work for yourself. What Prince, Jay-Z, Russ, and some others have figured out is your profit comes not from being the puppet on stage, but the puppet master behind the curtain! Ari you have said this quote by Jay-Z many times on your show, “l’m not a businessman, I’m a business man!”
Love reading your writings, it gives me inspiration and stimulates my brain.🤗🥰
I honestly think all corporations are in for the money, and taking advantage of their workers, artists, and even the consumers. I enjoyed your interview with Russ. He had a vision, and never gave up on it, and that takes a lot of faith and confidence. I remembered your Fallback Friday with George Clinton, Carole King, and Harry Smith. Your guests are always so interesting, and always fun to watch. Thanks Ari!!!😊
Hi Art. I feel the movie industry is actually robbing artist of money due them for their work . It's a racket. Michael Jackson and Prince were hip to the theft of musical properties. Michael Jackson was aware of value of owning musical properties Prince realized the value of his work and kept it under his control. Russ has found a way too fight big companies doing his own streaming and making it work. As Clinton said "you have to find a way to fight the big companies'.
Kinda off topic, but can you play Randy Newman's Louisiana on your show?
It seems so timely. I once sang a song with a group in a hallway in the Glenwood Projects in Brooklyn. Guy brought out a reel to reel tape deck. We sang. The next week it was a record. No one knew. It's like that sometimes.
I believe...quoting your friend Fran Lebowitz…and Bernie Sanders...no one…no corporation…should have profits of billion and billions dollars…It is a stupid amount of money to have, and it should be taken away in taxes…
Music always seem to bring harmony to our hearts and souls. Love it! Please have a gentle new time and I can't wait to be with you this evenine. Hugs ...
I loved reading because it didn’t just make me feel good and remember pieces of myself. You are a great host of information and bringing out personal experiences of others on your shows. I was hoping by subscribing I would you would share yourself and your experiences more. Your questions give me great ways to consider the music industry. Robin Thicke I thought at the time did the right thing by paying the family for samples. Now I’m not even sure if I can sing happy birthday publicly.
Ari I wanted to share my view with you and wanted feedback I’m not interested in another type of Facebook couldn’t find an email address. Adding that those anti abortion folks support a person who cheated on his wives went to prostitutes and rally around someone who thinks at Charlottesville there was good on both sides even after the events of January 6th he praised those who rallied against our government and authority. You have my email address I really don’t want my views shared If you can respond 👍🏻 If not ✌🏻
Interesting read. It’s sad this is the way of the land. Bravo to Russ. You don’t see confidence like that today. What a role model.
Hi Ari, Happy New Year. I listened to the full Maverick interview with Russ. And then some of his songs. Losing Control definitely a love song. The music industry you describe seems similar to the movie industry. In earlier years they owned their contract players and could make or break a career. Much has changed but control of marketing, releases, distribution is still not in the hands of any artist. There are entertainment lawyers- do they not represent the music industry performers? Would a consortium of music artists banding together ( like a union, thinking of theater performers) have power to negotiate with record labels. Going it alone is not for everyone, but it’s useful to be a thorn in the side of the establishment. So “ well played” by Russ. Well played by you for bringing this to our attention.
Yes, and it's striking to see areas where the 'old' systems persist... I also think this impacts fans and the wider culture, because if artists are marginalized enough, they may (logically) choose to do other things with their time and we may be the poorer for it
Van Gogh died a pauper because no one bought his paintings, but he didn’t stop painting. True artists never give up even when the systems work against them. Even if no one listens, wouldn’t they still sing? Would you ever stop writing?
When Russ found his success, it was already 2015-16. That was 6 years ago. Now it is much more difficult to follow Russ's Case Study. Case in point? Our music label (the Kiboomers.com). We started with streaming in 2010 through The Orchard (a distributor) - with nada as our yearly income (maybe $10K with about 300 songs!). We only started seeing success through streaming in 2016. About the time Russ saw his success. Now we are booming. We had the same thoughts as Russ (delusional) but we also had over 1,000 songs by 2016! And we are a children's company - niche - not main stream.
The major record labels starting embracing (sort of) streaming starting around 2014-5. Now it is virtually impossible for new acts to break into the market as independents. They have to sign a sub label or work with marketing companies to get onto the playlists, as everything is based on algorithms etc. The majors OWN the playlist placements. It is virtually impossible to get onto a New Music Friday (talking Spotify). Like literally IMPOSSIBLE in the US unless you are signed to a major label (or sub label). You have to still do all the grunt work that Russ did - but it costs money!
So it is easy to preach to newbies how "WE" did it - but. getting those algorithms and "halo" effects of owning thousands of songs in your library, and a "newbie" just starting out with 1-2 songs - is very, very different. Marketing gurus are only guru's once they have slugged along for 10 years.....and then following their recipe of success doesn't ofter work. Otherwise everyone would be successful.....
It's a great message to just KEEP TRYING - NEVER GIVE UP - but that is rather simplistic. One has to eat........
Really interesting points here, including about timing (something he referred to as well) - thank you for sharing your experience and the nuanced, realistic view!
Ari, thanks for another excellent article in a subject that I am not as knowledgeable as you are – the music industry. I just love to listen to music and attend music concerts. I remember very well when Prince called himself, “the artist formerly known as Prince” and had “slave” written on the side of his face. I did not quite understand why he did that. As I learn a little bit from listening to various music artists during their interview or from a documentary on their career success, they talk about their record label experiences. Most music artists start with signing and working with a record label. As the music artist become successful and learn more about the music business, they branch out and create their own record label.
I watched your interview with the rapper Russ. It looks like Russ is an “outlier” as he persisted through the ups and downs of his music career journey…he had his eyes on the prize and it paid off for him.
What do you think of how the music industry is set up? I am not sure if I like how the music industry is set up. It is too complicated and at the end, the music artist gets little to nothing from his/her work when signed with a record label because everyone in the process gets paid first. This might be one of the reasons the music artist does not feel valued, or their work is not valued.
As a music lover (consumer), I embraced the inventions of Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal because these online music streaming platforms allowed me to either buy the album of a music artist or only buy the tracks that I liked. For a music artist’s standpoint, they may or rather already have an opinion about these platforms and how they benefit from them…anyone remember Napster?
Does it remind you of other industries in this country? Yes, this reminds me of the movie industry and the sports industry.
Before you assume the suits in the office are taking all the gravy - an A&R guy who signs the act gets points on the act's sales so long as the A&R guy is working at the label. You're not signing new acts that are selling, the label lets you go.
I stopped buying music after the DRM mafia took over the music industry. If I like your music, I am willing to pay for it, but you can't force me to pay to listen to the the same 100 songs over and over again. I don't turn the radio on because I can't stand advertising. My last, great, music experience was seeing AC/DC live in 2009. RIP music industry.
This aspect of the music industry sounds predatory and the exploits artists. It reminds me of healthcare industry in 2021. Businesses now own the services provided. I am surprised more artists don’t consider forming a cooperative where they own their creation but share legal and production costs. It’s too bad that this current paradigm could discourage new talent. We need change!
In fairness, there's a new paradigm where artists record on their own dime and then find an indie that will put it out, then go out on the road which is where they make most of their money, such as it is, getting concert fees, selling product and merch and hyping whatever sales of cd's and downloads as they can muster, receiving a higher percentage than they would from a major. The record can also generate licensing fees for soundtracks which is a good source of income.
Good to know. Thx
David knows his stuff... thanks for your comments!
Hi Ari, the music business is way out of my league, so I appreciate Wendy W’s enlightening comments. However, I was friends to a couple of hit recording artists of the1950s and 60s-one, even into the 2000s. They would only whisper about the music business. Little Richard openly discussed being paid $50 for his first hit, “Tutti Fruity,” with a contract for a HALF-CENT for each record sold. Imagine that! I think the companies akin to them today are Amazon and Facebook-using techniques to squeeze workers and the competition. The Winklevoss twins are still owed money for their stolen concept. As for the music business, artists like Jay-Z, Master P, Eminem, and 50 Cents and others, did well selling CDs from the trunk of their cars, and now Jay-Z with Tidal seems to be doing okay. Ray Charles sought and got ownership of his masters. Still, most artists just play the game and work within the system for viability.
Addendum: Re: The Winklevoss twins-it is my opinion they are owed more money, due to an alleged deflated company value.
The music business is not unique or unusual as it is like every other business in America. It exploits its workers and their intellectual property. Unless you are independent (analogous to an entrepreneur), you work for the “man.” What is sad in the music industry is when these young rappers who think they have made it out of the trap (LiL Baby) only to find themselves ensnared in another trap. One that uses them until they are all used up and having nothing to show for it (not even the bling around their necks or the gold in their grills).
I don’t think we can place all the blame on the music industry for their business practices. It takes a lot of money to promote, groom, and develop these artist’s talents. Yes, some people will sell their souls for that spotlight even if it means they will be beholden to these companies and then some will not. I believe you can make it outside “the system,” but are you really independent? Unless you are independently wealthy someone had to invest in you monetarily which means you owe them, so you are not free of the strings attached.
This country was built on capitalism, which means everyone has a shot at their dreams (at a cost) whether you work for the “man” or work for yourself. What Prince, Jay-Z, Russ, and some others have figured out is your profit comes not from being the puppet on stage, but the puppet master behind the curtain! Ari you have said this quote by Jay-Z many times on your show, “l’m not a businessman, I’m a business man!”
Love reading your writings, it gives me inspiration and stimulates my brain.🤗🥰
I honestly think all corporations are in for the money, and taking advantage of their workers, artists, and even the consumers. I enjoyed your interview with Russ. He had a vision, and never gave up on it, and that takes a lot of faith and confidence. I remembered your Fallback Friday with George Clinton, Carole King, and Harry Smith. Your guests are always so interesting, and always fun to watch. Thanks Ari!!!😊
Hi Art. I feel the movie industry is actually robbing artist of money due them for their work . It's a racket. Michael Jackson and Prince were hip to the theft of musical properties. Michael Jackson was aware of value of owning musical properties Prince realized the value of his work and kept it under his control. Russ has found a way too fight big companies doing his own streaming and making it work. As Clinton said "you have to find a way to fight the big companies'.
Happy New Year Ari,
Kinda off topic, but can you play Randy Newman's Louisiana on your show?
It seems so timely. I once sang a song with a group in a hallway in the Glenwood Projects in Brooklyn. Guy brought out a reel to reel tape deck. We sang. The next week it was a record. No one knew. It's like that sometimes.
I believe...quoting your friend Fran Lebowitz…and Bernie Sanders...no one…no corporation…should have profits of billion and billions dollars…It is a stupid amount of money to have, and it should be taken away in taxes…
Music always seem to bring harmony to our hearts and souls. Love it! Please have a gentle new time and I can't wait to be with you this evenine. Hugs ...
I loved reading because it didn’t just make me feel good and remember pieces of myself. You are a great host of information and bringing out personal experiences of others on your shows. I was hoping by subscribing I would you would share yourself and your experiences more. Your questions give me great ways to consider the music industry. Robin Thicke I thought at the time did the right thing by paying the family for samples. Now I’m not even sure if I can sing happy birthday publicly.
💃🕺
Ari I wanted to share my view with you and wanted feedback I’m not interested in another type of Facebook couldn’t find an email address. Adding that those anti abortion folks support a person who cheated on his wives went to prostitutes and rally around someone who thinks at Charlottesville there was good on both sides even after the events of January 6th he praised those who rallied against our government and authority. You have my email address I really don’t want my views shared If you can respond 👍🏻 If not ✌🏻